Runner Triathlete News [ return ] From Message Jean 5/30/2002 09:32:58 Subject: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: Your results for Andy Payne is the way all results should look....in your magazine and on your web site. The Open list male and female and the age groups male and female with complete information, i.e, first, last name, AGE, City, State and time. And most important with NO ONE pulled out of the age groups. And some great photos. Keep it up. Kent 5/30/2002 12:49:12 RE: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: Yet many people would disagree with your "most important" point. They would like to see how they finished in the age group with the overall winners pulled out. Terminology is "duplication" when a person can win overall AND and age group award, and the usual standard is to NOT allow that. Essentially, it spreads the awards around further, encouraging more people to participate and try for an award. You'll never satisfy everyone, no matter how hard you try. Jean 5/30/2002 13:06:22 RE: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: My husband and I were at a race once and they pulled the top ten Open runners out male/female. Six of the top ten women were in the 35-39. The race called up the 7th finisher in this group and she refused the award. She was running her first race and was a little overweight. She said "how can you give me first when six others were in front of me. I can't take this home. I rode to the race with two of them?' Duplication is kind of like the big 12 football conference. If Texas is the conference champ are they not also the southern division champ or should they be pulled out and the division title given to the runner up? If a person runs a race and he/she is a master and this person is first in the Open, first in age-group, first Master, First Clydesdale, first WAVA Master, which award do they get? Do they have a choice? If a baseball hitter has the most home runs, most rbi's, highest batting average does he get the Triple crown? This is not duplication... it is triplication. He gets all. I've always wondered why races didn't go deeper in the age groups and not give any phony awards. Just tell it like it is. Many runners don't care what they get as long as the get something. Kent 5/31/2002 10:13:14 RE: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: 10 deep is VERY unusual. Most likely, a race doing that is at least EXPECTING professional runners and paying prize money. Pros could care less about awards, they want the cash. Houston has a 25K that generally draws over 2000 runnners, and they only pull one overall winner. One year, the male 35-39 age group runners placed 1-2-3-5. Do you think someone finishing 5th overall in a 2000 person race didn't deserve an award ?? The person finishing 7th was in the same age group and actually didn't get anything. I'm sure the first runner-up in the Miss Russia pagent will be happy to take the crown (and CASH!!) now that the original winner has been named Miss Universe. Your last statement is the strongest point for non-duplication. If you already got something, why not "spread the wealth" a little deeper, and give one more person a feeling of acomplishment. That additional person just might think that winning something, anything, even a third place, weight division, age group ribbon is the best thing that's happened to them in a long, long time. If they don't care, that's fine too, because when it's all said and done, it's only a race, not life or death. You get to decide how much it means to you. Kenny S. 5/31/2002 13:29:57 RE: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: I've often wondered why races like every other sport don't give everybody the award he/she earned. I don't want a phony award. The solution is to give everyone what they earned even if its four awards. Just give one award recognizing all four like every other game or sport. If the purpose is to spread the wealth,always go at least 10 deep in the Open and include the bracket awards. BUT go deeper in the age brackets. Just tell it like it happened and I would be happy, but I don't want an award that says I won my age bracket when I was second or third. Its phony. Simple enough? Kent 5/31/2002 15:08:56 RE: Andy Payne Results IP: Logged Message: If you REALLY want to be listed "like it happened", why not just have an overall list first to last, and do away with all "categories". Of course you say, then the 70 y/o female has to compete with the 26 y/o male pro. OK, age groups and sex categories. But what about the two 35 y/o males where one weighs 140 and one weighs 230. OK weight divisions. How about the petite 4'10" female against the 6'1" female with legs up to her arm pits ?? Height classes ?? The guy with size 8 feet against the one with size 17's ?? Left handed people ?? Folks with I.Q's > 150 ?? Women who have given birth vs. those who haven't ?? Where does it all stop ?? Simple ?? If only it was. Plain truth is that NOTHING ... absolutely NOTHING ... will make EVERYONE happy. Hmmm ... Didn't I say that in my first message ??? P 1

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