Runner Triathlete News [ return ] From Message sebastian   12/17/2002 15:57:17 Subject: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: I have seen the rankings at the print version of RTN, however the on line version has not yet been updated. When emailed the contact provided on that page no reply is sent. Also on the old page the individual listing link is wrong. I remember a couple of years ago when the USAT SMW portion of this site was great, up to date and provided good useful information. Over the last year+ there is hardly any useful information on the page, the rankings are not up to date, this year you couldn't even find a list of the SMW region championship events on the page. Triatlon is a fast growing sport in our region, yet the information provided by the USAT-SMW board is inadequate. If this is going to be the only free vehicle of communication between the USAT-SMW and it's members a much better job needs to be done with it. Sincerely, Sebastian Rodrigano usat 155223 RTN Editor   12/18/2002 09:18:59 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: Sebastian-- As the editor of RTN and the person who posts information to the USAT/SMW web site, I'll take some of the blame. I completely forgot to post a list of the championship events this year. That's my fault. Regarding the regional rankings, the ones that you saw printed in the December 2002 issue of RTN are essentially null and void. The region decided to re-open the rankings to allow additional events to submit their results for the rankings. This will provide fair and complete rankings when they are retabulated. To date, we haven't received the updated rankings -- I understand that the retabulation is a fairly lengthy process. When we receive the updated rankings, we will post them to the web site. However, I do believe that all the information that you have been looking for has been readily available in the print version of RTN (with the exception of the updated rankings, of course). In fact, the list of championship events for 2003 is in the January 2003 issue, which will arrive to subscribers in just a few days. We have to balance the amount of information that is placed on the web site (which we lose money on) versus the print magazine (which has a subscriber base). That's not to say the the information that you requested shouldn't be on the site (yes, the championship events definitely should have been on the site -- I take the blame for that), but if we put everything that's in the magazine on the web site -- there wouldn't be any web site or magazine, since they both would be out of business. We gratefully appreciate the support of all of our loyal subscribers. We encourage all of you, though, to introduce a buddy, training partner, or club member to RTN. There are quite a large number of USAT members in our region who do not support the magazine. In fact, I'd like to see some type of arrangement between the region and RTN that provides a subscription to all annual members when they join USAT. We have a program like this installed for clubs (call me if your club isn't part of this program), so the basic premise and guidelines are already in place. I welcome all comments from readers and non-readers regarding the magazine and web site. We strive to make both of them as informative as possible, while striking a balance between profitable and non-profitable. Lance Phegley sebastian   12/18/2002 12:07:43 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: Lance: I think that that is a great idea. If USAT-SMW is going to choose to communicate to it's membership through your magazine or website, they should make sure that you can get the necessary information to all the members in an economically sound manner. In no way did I mean to critizice your publication, which I very much enjoy, but rather I wanted to make a point that the current USAT-SMW leadership is severely failing to properly communicate with us the members. Best regards, Sebastian RTN Editor   12/18/2002 13:14:44 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: Don't worry. I didn't take what you said as criticism -- well, maybe constructive criticism. But that's fine. Most people don't comment either way about things. I don't expect everyone to be completely happy with everything we do. I'm glad to hear feedback, even if it's negative. Just so we know what you want, like, etc. Establishing a scenario where every USAT member received the magazine would allow us the freedom and opportunity to do a LOT more, both in print and on the web site. This would benefit all parties: the athletes, the event directors, the events themselves, the region, and RTN. Lance Phegley Olen 12/18/2002 13:38:00 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: It would be nice if there was a list of races that the results had been recieved for. Then the people who are interested could contact their RD's to pressure them. As it now stands, again races will be missed and the athletes will come up short. RTN Editor   12/18/2002 13:59:18 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: The most current list that we have was printed in the December 2002 issue of RTN. It's on page 26. Lance Phegley olen 12/18/2002 14:04:18 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: I would gladly take over the figuring and posting of the results. I would make available an updated weekly rankings. Then the athletes would know on a weekly basis how they stand, and they would also know if and when their RD's submitted the results. I don't see why we have to WAIT so long for someone to get the results done. It does not seem like a hard process. You mention how hard it is. Please tell us what all is involved. I don't take what you say without any proof. Right now it sounds like an excuss, so please back it up. I've already thought of a scheme and so has my friend who is also a software engineer. All a person needs is a master list of USAT numbers and names along with the results. CROSS REFERENCE and compute. I don't know all the details, but I can't imagine it being that hard to do. I completely agree that the USAT SW REGION website contains NO usefull information. I mentioned this to Brad Davidson MONTHS ago. He said he was working with the person to get it updated. Nothing has changed. If RTN is to be the communication link, then communicate to us. We have no idea of what the board is doing. How was Ed chosen to do the rankings? Who decided to give it to another company this year. Who and how was the company decided? Why was it given back to Ed. I'm being very critical because I don't think IT was my or any other athletes responsibilty to complain to get the ranking re-done. I emailed Brad and Ed the day I received the RTN in the mail. Both initially blew me off. I continued to push and complain. Brad told me to have my RD resubmit the results but he couldn't promise anything. Later I found on Houston Racing similiar complaints. Now, without notifying the athletes in the region, I find out that the ranking are being redone. LACK OF COMMUNICATION. The board should have looked at the results and decided they were not complete before they were posted. RTN ran a vote for the best races and completely left off several races. This favors those races that were listed. In addition to the results being redone, the vote for the best races should be redone also. RTN is by far the best magazine I get in the mail each month. I'm only making the points above and do not take anything away from this great magazine. Olen 12/18/2002 14:15:54 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: I'm referring to a current list that includes all the races that were missed the first time. I understand that results were "lost" due to the switching of persons doing the rankings. I would like to see a list BEFORE the finale rankings were posted. It is pointless to see a list after the fact. Does no good to the athlete, too late to pressure anyone, the results are already posted. Randy   12/18/2002 14:35:07 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: I agree with Olen. This rankings issue has gone on long enough. The board members need to step up, get together, and address this. The banquet and awards are weeks away. This should not be that complex. The hardest issue is that the RD's are not submitting results or reportedly they don't know what to send. I don't know the person(s) that are handling the rankings this year, but Olen and I could do a better job. Guess we need to talk to the board members. I also question the relationship of the region and a for profit website. But that is another matter, somewhat. shawn smith 12/18/2002 15:30:48 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: i think olen makes a number of good points. i'm not sure if he realizes that ed whitcomb maintained a website for a number of years that would allow you to check the rankings during the season. you could see what races were submitted and each athletes' points for each race. it was a great communication tool and invariably i sent ed a couple corrections each year, plus i knew which race directors to remind about submitting their results. with all of the changes this year that website was dropped. the result is published rankings in RTN for mid-season and final that were riddled with errors and ommissions in large part because the athletes were left in the dark. tim terwey had a great year, but you knew something was wrong if he was ranked ahead of brandon marsh for overall triathlete. a quick check of the printed race point values and it was easy to see brandon's ranking was a couple points too low. ed confirmed there are a couple of errors that will change the mix at the top for the male triathletes. also, many houston area folks weren't even ranked because 3 local triathlons, with 1,200 finishers combined, didn't have their results in the rankings. i think a website with rankings data during the season will go a long way towards resolving these problems. lance, i don't think that would take away from folks buying RTN, but it would help ensure that what is published is accurate. if you want the age group rankings to be unveiled only in the print version of RTN, then the data could be organized in a manner that would be useful without giving away the final standings. RTN Editor   12/18/2002 15:48:51 RE: USAT SMW rankings IP: Logged Message: Shawn-- That's not what I'm saying. In fact, I offered to train the person who originally did the rankings this year on how to post them to our site. That never really took off, so I ended up posting the mid-season rankings myself. I didn't post the final rankings because by the time I was ready to post them, I had already been alerted that the rankings were going to be retabulated. As soon as I get the corrected rankings, rest assured they will be up on the site. We only received two sets of rankings (mid-season and the incorrected final rankings). We've made public every set of rankings we have. I also propose for 2003 that we list (maybe on a monthly basis) the events that have turned in their results for the rankings. Of course, if we can get the rankings posted/published on a more frequent basis, then this will solve itself. Ed, I don't know if you're going to do the 2003 rankings. But I can show you how to post them to the RTN site in about 5 minutes. And that goes for whomever does the rankings -- I'll teach anyone. But I'm getting off on a bit of a tangent. I wasn't specifically referring to the rankings when I talked about print versus web. I'll wholeheartedly agree that the rankings have a special nature and, because of that, we need to let the athletes know what's going on with them AHEAD of time. Much easier to make corrections ahead of time, rather than after (as we are seeing perfectly with this year's rankings). I'm more concerned about the number of athletes who tell me they don't subscribe to our magazine, but "they love the web site." Lance Phegley P 1 Next Page>>